[CTQ Smartcast] Designing a Culture for Tomorrow, With Smriti Handa
Smriti Handa is the Global Head for Talent Acquisition at Reckitt and has worked in various capacities within Human Resources at some of the biggest global brands like Airtel and Phillips.
This Smartcast, hosted by CTQ co-founder BV Harish Kumar is an excellent opportunity to know what it takes to build a culture for tomorrow. She has also shared some actionable tips on how to stay true to the organization's compass in a global role where one witnesses geographical and cultural diversity.
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SOME OF THE THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT
Relevance of the organization culture and values in times of distributed work.
The importance of equitable infrastructure.
Nuances of having a future-relevant culture.
How must the organization convey its values and culture to its stakeholders in a distributed work setting?
Hiring for right fit versus hiring for skills.
3 things founders and entrepreneurs must consider while building an organization’s culture.
How to stay true to an organization's inner compass while aligning with diversity?
The change that pandemic has brought in the HR function.
PLUS
Future relevance of head offices.
AND
Future relevance of B-School campus hiring.
If you enjoyed this Smartcast, you will also like Pranali Save On How HR Evolved In The Pandemic Era
TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
00:00:00
Harish Kumar: Smriti Handa is the Global Head for Talent Acquisition at Reckitt. Smriti has played several roles within HR at some of the biggest brands worldwide like Airtel and Phillips. So we took this opportunity to talk to Smriti about building a culture for tomorrow. I spoke to her about when is the right time to identify the values and culture of your organization. I asked Smriti for actionable tips on how to stay true to the organization's compass, how she has been able to do that in her global role, accounting for geographical and cultural diversity. I'm sure all HR professionals will find this chat very useful. But if you're a founder of a growing company, you'll find this chat quite instructive and super insightful. Of course, we ourselves do a lot of work in helping teams, articulate and orchestrate a culture that enables them to be future relevant. If you want to know more about our work in those areas, please do check out our website and consider subscribing to our Telegram channel and weekly email newsletter.
00:01:33
Harish: Hi, welcome Smriti. Welcome to the CTQ Smartcast.
00:01:36
Smriti: Thank you Harish, happy to be with you again.
00:01:39
Harish: Yeah, so Smriti we’ll dive in straight away into the topic that we want to talk about. So in these times of distributed work, has an organization’s culture and values become even more relevant than earlier? And how has that changed?
00:01:57
Smriti: Yeah. So, of course, I go back to the basics of culture and I recall we studied these definitions in terms of what culture is all about. Culture is something that you repeatedly do. But how is it showcased? We used to talk about artefacts, we used to talk about rituals. Now if you think of it in a virtual context, I think all that's got diminished, right. If I used to go to the office, I would see all my values called out. I will see somebody else behaving in a particular way. I will see a rhythm around morning meetings. It used to be what you repeatedly do, what are the rituals that an organization has built? And I think in today's days and time of course that all have broadly come down. I don't get to see it as often, I'm invited to meetings. I can only go to meetings by invitation because if I don't have a calendar in my inbox, there's no way I’d even know that there's a meeting running. Otherwise, you run into training rooms and you realize all the sales team is meeting. That entire bit has gone away and therefore your point is culture or being a lot more intentional about the culture. I think it's become important and equally, at times, I would say the authenticity kind of goes away. You know, the more intentional you become about something, the less natural it seems. So I think it's become really tough in that context. If you think of most of the values that organizations talk about, we talk about ownership, we talk about team spirit. The words could vary; somebody will call it collaboration, somebody will call it team spirit, somebody will call it differently. So ownership, team spirit, collaborations, performance-driven, these are some really common words that you hear in values. Is it easy to display it now? I think no, because collaboration, which was so correlated with being in a room and having a whiteboard and discussing your pain points and telling you how I can further your interests. And you tell me yours and we agree on what is the way forward? I think it's become really tough. Team spirit in action becomes really tough. Of course, words were always there and will continue to be there. It is all the more difficult for the new hires because I've been with the organization for X number of years. I know it, I know what they say, they mean it because I've seen it in action. But if you think of new hires, it's the toughest for them, what they experience in an interview, they make some impressions, what they experience in different meetings, they make some impressions, but to be able to relate to it on an ongoing basis and to truly trust, I think has become more difficult and therefore getting more intentional about culture has become important.
00:05:08
Harish: Right. So we'll come to what organisations and people do to address this. But before that, one question is what is the danger of this situation that we are in right now? Where we are not able to do this in a very deliberate manner or if people ignore this, that no, we have a great culture, but in the distributed world, it is not being conveyed in the same way. So what is the danger of that?
00:05:37
Smriti: For me, the most important bit that's gone away personally is the comfort of relationships. I think a lot of times work happens because you trust, work happens because, if Harish has said it five days, it will happen in five days. And those relationships just don't get built overnight. You invest in relationships, you give some, you take some, I think that comfort of relationships because you're not informally connected that easily now. I think that's kind of gone away, which of course impacts your quality of work and your time to deliver. There are a lot of benefits of working remotely, which I don't think we can take away in the virtual context, but to your point, the most impacted are relationships. Our work is not formally driven all the time and we talk about networks, networks of relationships, that late evening relationship, all that has suddenly gone away. Therefore, can you evidently see that there's an impact on quality work or time? I don't think so, at least so far I haven't because it's kind of taken over my productivity. But that productivity between you and I, if this lasts much longer, will start getting impacted because if you start thinking of course it is not an equitable distribution of work and why do I say that? Because of the infrastructure available to me versus another peer who's living in a joint family to another peer who is expecting a child, I think that availability is not equitable anymore. When we went to the office, it was the same AC, the same room, the same organizations talking about open spaces these days, so whether you are here or there in the hierarchy, we have the same space to sit in, I think it was equitable distribution and therefore equitable outcome expected from everyone to give your best. I think right now productivity did overtake because you're commuting time goes away. But now there is mental fatigue coming in, a lot of mental fatigue coming in and I think this sooner than later starts impacting. There are people who now start calling us saying, call us back to the office. We enjoyed it for a while and everybody enjoyed it. I've loved being around my daughter and husband in the same house, which we would generally meet in the evenings etc. So I think it's a lovely experience and it has opened up mindsets to a large extent. Now I don't think organizations truly need those policies, you can only work two days from home or two days in a month from home. Those policy cultures may come down because people have been forced to trust their team members, that productivity will not suffer etc. But of course, the long term impact as I see it is because of inequitable distribution of infrastructure or cultural engagement going missing. I do feel it will impact, let's say the time to deliver or the quality of delivery, it will start impacting sooner than later.
00:08:59
Harish: Right. Smriti, we often talk about building a culture for a future relevance. So do you think having a strong culture around the kind of values that we spoke about, is there nuance to having a culture which is built towards future relevance or any culture, a strong culture, belief will ensure that you are going to endure as an organization and thus be future relevant? Is there nuance to that?
00:09:27
Smriti: I think relevance is of course important. You know it more than me. With these entire generational workers changing, we've been talking about millennials and zillennials, everybody coming in. We're talking about being more diversity specific. I think those were nuances that got added at every point in time from year to year. Now if you see as of today, the future of work is the nuance that gets added. NASA’s research spoke about three things: what is the future of work defined by? The work, the worker and the workplace. The introduction of three in my mind is what creates culture, interaction. Of course, if you see the work is changing robotics, AI, everything we talk about. The worker is changing. We're talking about millennials, the new generation, the digital natives, everybody coming in and the workplace has totally changed. I'm working from home etc. So all the three kinds undergo changes, you have to be more nuanced about the culture and what you want to call out. I think all organizations, I'm sure have seen a shift where well being and people care is so talked about. Well being, we always correlated with doing some physical exercises in the office. You would do competitions, fun competitions, who lose the maximum weight or who do the maximum number of stairs. I remember in my younger days these were the kind of things that used to happen. The physical well being was more talked about. Now you talk to organizations, everything around mental, spiritual well being. Those are conversations that organizations are doing, you have the head of well being across organizations coming too. So this is your way of showing care and this is your way of shifting a culture a little bit, nudging it to say it is not just about the number of hours and productivity, we actually are talking about work-life integration. We used to talk about work-life balance. I think it's shifting to work-life integration. And therefore I want to assume with well being coming into play, your families will start playing a much bigger role. Maybe it sounds weird as I say it because it's never been so, but my assumption is that our families will start playing a much more active role in work environments. So whether it is, let's say, a mental wellbeing session, is it me attending it alone or along with the spouse? Because you know, you have pressures from both personal and professional fronts, how do you deal with them etc? So maybe a long answer but cutting it short, all three variables that in my mind make for culture are changing. Therefore, nuance around the culture needs to be a lot more thought through and we need to be a lot more intentional about what we are doing. Like I said, well being is just one pillar, I'm sure there's lots more that's happening in our spaces right now as we speak.
00:12:40
Harish: Right. Yeah. That's very interesting. We talk about individuals bringing their whole self, but it's actually now bringing the whole family to think about it. They're all supporting the individual. Right?
00:12:52
Smriti: Totally. Who are we without our family? I mean, if you look at it when you say bring your whole self to work. Me not thinking about my daughter when I'm at work is not human, I am a mother and I will be a mother. While I'm here, I’m thinking she has her exam, how she is doing or dealing with it. So I think if you expect me to bring my whole self, everything comes along. I'm a package and I think that realization is kind of coming in as we speak.
00:13:21
Harish: Right. Yeah. So on the same note Smriti, you spoke about how people used to do all these things around physical well being earlier. Now coming back to the whole realm of distributed work more where people are working remotely. Earlier having these plaques and posters with these words on the walls painted and things like that was a big part of communicating your culture, values and it does play a role. The physical environment does play a role because you know that these are things important for the organization. Now in the distributed world when my physical environment is probably my bedroom or in some cases like I was talking to somebody, they were sitting on top of a tree on a farm while attending a call. So the physical environment is very different. You're talking about equitable infrastructure. I'm also talking about a very different environment. Now in this kind of setting, how do you then ensure that the organization conveys to people? And when I say people the whole world, right? Their employees, their customers, their partners, these are the things that are really important for us.
00:14:38
Smriti: There are both formal and informal ways. Formal ways have always existed and so have informal. What has gone away in the last two years is the informal ways. I think you and I have spoken about serendipity in the past and I was actually thinking what is serendipity in our work context? And I thought of it when, let's say I’m working late evening with my manager and we realized that let's say, I'm slogging and we are making some deck and my boss suddenly orders Maggi from the canteen. That's serendipity, that's his or her way of showing care for me. When I'm working on some stuff, I suddenly realized all my sales heads must be in the room, and I wanted this clarity. I suddenly walk into his room unannounced without any calendar invite and suddenly see him working with my team member on, let's say, talent management, figuring out future potential or future performance. And in my head, there are blurbs coming, “Oh, that's care for people and future thinking.” And I make impressions, to me that serendipity, unannounced, by chance. You just witnessed something that reaffirmed your faith in the culture or the right messaging that you want to give to people. Sitting with my team members means team spirit and collaboration with HR. Everything, all those messages, your mind in a subconscious, unconscious way is kind of accepting that this is what this organization is about. Even in a formal setting. It's not written there that if you enter this room, you will witness collaboration or this or that, right? It just so happens. However, in today's times, you know that it's just not possible. Meeting your customer just at a shop while he or she is buying a Harpic or any product of yours is not possible. It's not possible anymore. Similarly, entering somebody's team, team meetings happen and just entering somewhere and saying, “Hey, how's it going?” Not everybody will entertain it because everybody's running from one meeting to another. Like there are no corridors or water coolers etc where you just stand by and talk about it. So that bit in the initial part of the phase, it totally went away. But I think organizations and people are very intentionally trying around it at this point in time. I think if I talk at organization levels, it is about keeping your meetings, not for an hour, but keeping them for 15 minutes. Those 10 minutes you just leave aside that people kind of say, “Hey, let's just connect for 10 minutes before my meeting starts etc.” I think ‘bring your own booze’ kind of informal gatherings where we generally chat or coffee chit chats. I know of organizations that have taken, let's say, a virtual infrastructure set up within the context, which would mean that you have coffee rooms. As you're doing these team meetings, you have coffee rooms or water coolers, etc. You know, you've kind of set up that layout and you suddenly see somebody entering the coffee room where there is no formality out there that you are entering somebody's space and you choose to go for a quick coffee yourself as well. Right. So in those 10 minutes or 15 minutes, organizations are making a lot of attempts to be fair to organizations and to people who are planning to ‘bring your own booze’ or even delivering dinners, to ensure that you just come together, chat about work, chat about life or about family. So there's a lot of attempts being made at ensuring informality at work. I think formal channels continue to work as is, there's no disturbance there.
00:18:49
Harish: Right. Is there a difference between how a large organization can and should look at this and how a small organization can and should look at this? When I say can and should, a smaller organization may probably have a very close-knit group to start with, but may not have the financial muscle to do some of these things. A larger team has the financial muscle, but probably teams are already set into silos. So they don't have that initial strength of the bond to start with. Is there a difference between how teams should look at this? Teams and companies as well?
00:19:30
Smriti: I've always believed that resources are just an additional benefit. A lot of times by the time most organizations move into H2, the budgets are busted and you go slow on 1000 things, right? As HR, I can tell from hiring to training to culture building, whatever you broadly want to do, do it in an H1. Because at H2 you know where your topline is and your bottom line is and they'll be slowing down costs. Because they have moved to how do you want to grow by cutting costs across organizations. No one specific organization. So over these years, organizations have taught you or your work has taught you that additional resources are just an advantage you have. If you have it well and good, but you should know how to do it even without having enough in your kitty. In the same box at your home when you and I manage our budgets, we know this is the budget, so you make the most of that money. I think that's how I look at organisations, as long as you know, your end objective and end goal, that you are trying to create A, B or C and you as a team are committed to working towards it. I think whether having resources or a distributed workforce, you'll always figure out ways and means of doing it. So in my head, you're small, it's easier for you to do it, but you don't have resources. You're big, it's really tough for you to do it, you're global in nature, your scale is much bigger etc., but you have resources. Trust me those resources are also never sufficient given your scale and size. So everybody has similar P&L problems or cultural issues etcetera that stem in but it is on the leadership and their vision that truly makes it happen. As long as that vision is consistent, I think companies will achieve it.
00:21:25
Harish: Right. Yeah. In fact, these days we've actually started coming up with this culture bandwidth. So we ask people what is your budget? When I say budget, it's actually the time that everyone can give, how much time do you think people can set aside for doing anything related to strengthening your culture? Then given the time that they have because there are cases where there are some companies that just have so much work that it is going to be a stretch to ask them to do something else. So yes, there is a different problem to be solved there. But while the problem is there, you cannot expect employees to leave everything and say that you will have a get-together and do something like this. So that's been a question that we have started asking people: what is their budget? And then I ask for a budget in terms of time and not money.
00:22:16
Smriti: Makes sense actually. And I think by asking that question, you're also making people conscious. You want the stars and the moon but you don't have the bandwidth or your own self isn't available to make it happen, then what are we talking about?
00:22:32
Harish: True. So that's a good selection criterion so far us in terms of whether that is going to go forward or not
00:22:41
Smriti: Correct because the impact will never come across, right. It's not invested, the impact will never happen. So you can spend a little or more, but if you're not invested personally or your leadership is not invested or people will not have the time because their bandwidths will not allow, then you can put in a lot of effort, but the outcome will never be achieved.
00:23:00
Harish: Yeah. So on that note Smriti, the one thing that we have seen is there are some organizations that are very good at identifying and have articulated the values and created a culture manifesto and are doing a great job of it. When it comes to startups or these small and medium scale enterprises, they are usually in existential issues and they are fighting very basic problems, so asking them to do this is always a challenge. That's the story that they tell themselves. In fact, I recorded an interview with somebody that should come out very soon. It's a unicorn company and it was a very interesting thing that he told me that he said when he and his co-founder got together even before they decided what product they would be launching, they would be working on. They decided what kind of a company they want to build. What should be the way that they run this company? But he said that insight has also come because this is his 5th or 6th startup that he is working on. He said if he had done this earlier. I don't think I would have had that insight. So it's always a tricky thing about telling startups that no, you're growing, but you need to get your culture right. They’ll say we’ll see about that later, let me first get my first 10 customers, right? So do you think there is some kind of a thumb rule that people can follow? Around 50 people after that you have to make sure that my culture and values have been articulated well and I'm hiring for the right fit and not just for skills and all those things?
00:24:46
Smriti: I think more than anything else, to me, this is existential, honestly. I’m an HR practitioner, so it comes naturally to me, I don't know. But I find it a little odd when people, let's say in my house, there are four of us living. If we don't kind of connect well, it's not a happy household, right? If the way we think or a thought process to the extent I think few of us are like related by blood or family, fourth is my help. Even if she doesn't understand what we as a family want in terms of happiness. I don't think she will ever deliver. So I'm just kind of correlating into personal space there. Forget the pandemic but you spend less time than you spend at work. Remember the pre-pandemic era, you're awake hours, you used to spend most of your awake hours, you used to spend it at the office. And if that environment is not clear in terms of what it wants out affects people or what it is working towards or “if it is your problem, it's my problem.” If that culture or that nuance or these things are not called out in the beginning. Forget small companies, even large companies can have that kind of working relationship that you make it happen, you are a leader yourself. It's not, I will come to you after I exploited all my choices. It's not in my first attempt that I say let’s go to the boss. I will always come to you after I figured out that there is a problem and which I'm not able to resolve. So you would always expect your organization, what is the role of hierarchy or your bosses? It's to make it easy for you. There's nothing else they're supposed to do. Technically, working is my job. I'm making it sound very easy, but technically at every additional level, the job should be to make it easier for the one below you. And how do you make it easy if you've clearly called out your culture, what you want, what is acceptable? What is negotiable? What is non-negotiable? If organizations are thinking of existential questions about revenue etc. But my question is the reverse, so I see it very differently in my head and I think that's our role to continue to push and nudge the system to say maybe you're not seeing it in the right order.
00:27:33
Harish: Yeah. So, if you are to get a bit more prescriptive and talk about what are, say the top three things that founders and entrepreneurs or owners of smaller scale companies, companies that are less than say 1-2 years old, they're still trying to figure out what they want to do. If you want to be prescriptive about this aspect of it, what is the kind of organization that you're going to build, which is going to endure if you have to think about that? What are three things that you would recommend these people to be doing?
00:28:06
Smriti: A lot of my friends and I'm going back to my life and conversations. Some of my friends who felt and who left, let's say startups really early. They joined with all enthusiasm and then didn't last long. I've seen them really succeed well in other organizations. But here the question they asked themselves was: how much am I ready to take? You know, there are compromises. So for example, if you and I are in a board meeting, the culture of the meeting is very homely. We're used to professionalism with family-like culture, but not the family in the culture. So I think setting your professional boundaries, that’s the starting point for me andaving that professionalism to start with. That there's management and management takes decisions and all that becomes the starting point for me because otherwise if you're really trying to attract some of the future talent or future leaders, it's going to be that everybody wants to work in a professional environment. To me, that's first. How do you set that professional environment becomes the second bit, which is the culture that you and I were talking about? I think one is, the culture comes from the vision of the entrepreneur, which means if my north star for example is to create travel easy and to do something you're clear about that, it leads to a lot of whys, I think how deep you dive on it to say, why do I want to do it? You first have to introspect it for yourself, what are you trying to do and die of it? You ask your five guys, you know exactly what is your inner calling? Or what landed you in this position etc. Once there's clarity on that, a lot of people tell me that they want to do HR because they think they're good at holding relationships. I'm like, good, please, because every role that you think of today needs relationships and networking. I don't know how HR is different in that context. So similarly that entrepreneurs need to kind of dive deeper, whether they need help on this because they've never done it before or they do it on their own. But diving deeper into their true inspiration or what that ‘aha’ moment would look like to them when they reach? What will really kind of satisfy them? And of course, profitability is one of the things, but there's a lot more beyond that. You want to create something where you want to leave behind a legacy. What is that? What will it lead to? Those questions, if answered well, will actually define the culture. I want to do it because my end customer so and so, that means customer orientation is really heavy on your mind. And that becomes one of your values. For somebody else, it may be to start giving jobs to people, India's struggling. Maybe that's the moment your employee first becomes your value. So in my mind, it depends upon where you are coming from. Because it's your vision that you want everybody to follow through. If you're not clear about your vision and how you want to set it up or achieve it, I think people do understand that you yourself are confused. That's when in certain organizations you will see really high levels of attrition. The startups I'm talking about. You will see because the moment you enter, you can sense confusion. You can sense confusion a lot of times in interviews as well. Like you said, what do you want versus what are you ready to give in return? Are you ready to give clarity in return? Are you ready to give your time? And I want a very focused HR team. You have time for HR or you are running after P&L. So I think those are some bits that entrepreneurs need to answer for themselves before they start thinking of either drawing a P&L or drawing cultural attributes for their organization.
00:32:23
Harish: Yeah, nice. That's interesting and fascinating as well, Smriti. I'll go to the other end now. So in your current role, you are heading Global Talent Acquisition for Reckitt. So in your role, managing that inner compass of people and organizations, how does that play out when you are talking about so many different cultures, people, maybe political diversity etc, where there are so many factors at play. So how do you ensure that the organization’s inner compass stays true and people are aligning to it in a very natural way, not a forced alignment to that compass?
00:33:11
Smriti: I think it should start with, as I said in the case of entrepreneurs, I put the onus on entrepreneurs. I think in a professional context, the onus starts with the manager, whether it's my manager to me or me to my team. So when you talk about talent acquisition as a team, we are undergoing some bit of transformation and there's a lot of work happening in that space. Now if I don't know what that end outcome of transformation should be or lead to, I don't think I'll be able to communicate it well or I'll be able to help the team see it in action at my end because I myself am confused. So I think it is for entrepreneurs the same way for any formal team coming together. It is equally important having a good understanding of your leadership values and ensuring the balance with the outcome. My leadership value is around caring, own etc, but my work outcome is that within six months I have to deliver so and so things. But if you see, generally you will be faced with a lot of confusion and at a lot of times I want to care for my people but I want the outcome. In most cases what you try answering for yourself is how do I want to be treated and I will not lie, it's really difficult. When you are a part of corporates for 16-17 years, you start running at a particular pace, your outcome expectations at a particular base and then to orient yourself, for like we are into seven regions. So Europe, North America, ASEAN, South Asia and China, all operate very differently. The work ethics and standards and ways of work are geographically diverse. The first is to accept that there's going to be diversity. I think it's a tough thing to act. I think we do talk about diversity, diversity of ideas towards gender, which is evident. But to truly accept this level of diversity, it takes a lot of conversation with yourself. I know that there are evenings I've spent just thinking about what I need to do differently. And it's just been two months in the role. But I think if you are able to gauge that bit, it is great. For all of us to accept that diversity is not just about how men and women look different or how LGBT look different or disabilities are evident, right? It is not the physical difference. It is actually a diversity of mind, of thought. I think it's an internal process more than anything else. Once you start internalizing it, I think in meetings it becomes much easier. So when somebody from an X country tells me next to one month, it's summertime. It's like in India you have two months leave and then you are back. But when you hear it for the first time it is a little difficult. But if you're more prepared, you tell yourself that there has to be empathy. You tell yourself we are distributed not just by geography, but by the thought process and how we've all kind of had our lives so far. I think that respect starts coming in and with that respect, you start telling yourself that yes, I'm changing in the process. I'm accepting people for who they are. I think it's a huge amount of personal growth that comes along. And a lot of respect for true diversity, diversity in the truest meaning that kind of comes along. Yeah, that's how you try to kind of move forward. Have I answered the question?
00:37:04
Harish: I have a follow-up question on that. This struck me while you were saying that, right? So if you say there are 6-7 regions that you are working with, assume that one region has adopted a business practice, which is making things very efficient and it's become a reason why they are doing so much better than the others. That business practices are just at odds with the nature of another region. The way they do things like you said one month leave and things like that. So then at what point do you try to change these other regions to what a particular region has done? When do you realize that no, making that change is probably, that region is going to lose its identity by making that kind of a change? How do you manage such a situation?
00:38:01
Smriti: I think some things are more natural. Like I said about leaves, if summer comes for one month in the whole year, then you're being funny. People, any which way have left. It's just that they want it in one go because beyond that it doesn't make sense for them or it's not as lucrative as it is. You need to kind of channel yourself to say it's different. The geography is different, their weather dynamics and you try to understand that and you accept that. The more work oriented bit, let's say your new policy and we've just done it and how I've handled it. We've launched one global policy across. I think again, change is never easy for anybody. Forget regions, individuals, leaders. For me sitting, it's easier to say we are bringing a new policy. But it's not easy for those, nobody's excitedly waiting for it. Their life is going on without your policy. What is working for me, I think I've done fairly okay on that front is listening. Okay. So what are you all different, if one of my teams tells me that you want feedback on, let's say every candidate. And if my manager's kind of feeding that feedback and even if one word goes here or there, then the candidate can legally sue us because of the right of information, they can ask for what feedback was kind of set up and the person can sue us in the court of law. And in India, we are not used to this. What we write, nobody even comes at times asking for it or what you write is a more standardized reply, etc. And when you hear this, forget whether legally they can sue so you are not. I mean, this is one example in other countries there could be other variations. I think you have to respect it. In my mind, it is a global context with local flavours. You cannot have one policy, one-size-fits-all. We're talking about personalization and customization at an individual level. So you're talking about regions and you have to be fair in terms of trying to understand where they are coming from, so you listen, you listen and more etc. And then you try to relate their problem statement with trying to come up with the solution. Will this work if you train your managers to write it right or if in that online tool there's a blurb that comes up that says “do not do ABC” or “don't be personal in your feedback” or whatever. Does that help? Maybe 50%. Then we start thinking more but that's like co-creating a solution once you understand the problem. But I think for everything, having a global solution in my mind for anything and everything is a little tough. You have to be choosy and you have to make the right choices that all your stakeholders understand and you understand as well.
00:41:06
Harish: Yeah. So I think adapting to the given context is extremely important. Not going in with any fixed thoughts or models, it's going to be too risky to do that. Yeah. In the last 1.5 years, now it's almost two years since the start of the pandemic. How have the roles of different functions in HR got affected by the pandemic? What has changed?
00:41:38
Smriti: Everything has changed in terms of ways of working. All our processes had to undergo change. How do you onboard an employee? Onboarding used to happen, employees would enter the office and there’s a team that's handling that onboarding in a physical context. That's changed. How you hire, there used to be panels that are depending upon vision etc. And then there's a physical connection because you want to read body language, you want to make remarks in spaces that in terms of learning and development, the real learning is when the icebreaker happens. And then once people are comfortable than in that all this in a physical context where there's proximity, there's the ability to see as a trainer honestly. You know it more than me, Harish, as a trainer to read people's faces when they need a break and when can you just continue because they're really enjoying it now. It's even a task to request people to open their videos because in their home space, how comfortable it is. So I think everything technically has changed, it has in my mind impacted all the sub-functions within HR and it has brought about some newer sub-functions like I was saying, head of well being. Within well being, what is the new focus etcetera? So these are things that are evolving within HR, but in terms of ways of working, in terms of processes, in terms of connecting with your stakeholders, everything has changed.
00:43:26
Harish: And what are the two or three changes that you wished had happened earlier?
00:43:32
Smriti: The flexibility and the choice. I would not want my team to feel the pressure of being in the office because I'm there. I always used to say earlier that as long as work is happening, you do it from here or you do it from elsewhere, that's a choice you make. Of course, there are days. I mean I've also said it earlier, there are days when you have those team meetings etc., make yourself available because that's the only time when you connect with the team. But otherwise, again that there have been times when I've been advised to go slow on such a change or shift in culture. It hasn't played on my mind or it won't, I hope, play in the future, but I think that the change that pandemic brought in. You work from anywhere as long as work is happening, there's trust and there is output. We all do a good job, that change shouldn't come. Maybe I'm saying some of the most obvious things, the second of course is the digital pace. So I think there used to be so much struggle, I used to feel like doing such calls and interviews, etc., come to the room now let's talk. You know that comfort used to be so much around having a physical connect. But again, I think if somebody, one of my team members is let's say in Bangalore and all others are in Gurgaon, why should he or she be left out? So now to that extent I'm equally comfortable with the Banglore team members now, I'm comfortable with the US and the UK team members, wherever you are, we are all good, we are a team. So I think that change was maybe now that I think of it very much there in a global context and global roles but in the vicinity was assumed that you are around. I think the third biggest change has added to a lot of people's wellness. I mean, of course, wellness has both sides so that when we think of the pandemic. But I remember, I think in really old times, one of our CEOs had reached out to the company's CEO requesting that you know I’m a single parent and I want to take my son from the bus stop every day at two. So I want to not be available for work 2-4. But I'm more than happy to slog out after 8 or 10 or whatever. But those were different times and we couldn't. I didn't have a faded memory as I talked to you. We couldn't accommodate that request that no, it sends out the wrong message to everybody else. Your team takes it differently. And now I think of it. Do I even have to ask? If my calendar is busy, that's about it. There's no way you can connect me even if you want to connect on the phone and I was available then, I’m available now. I think we took away that pleasures from at least India I can vouch for, I don't know globally if it was similar or different. We took away those small pleasures in this running after work bit. But who says what can't happen after 6 pm and who says that gentleman was not working after 6 pm any which way to make things happen. But I think we couldn't because what will society say? So that society wasn't just what is in our personal space used to impact us. I think in a professional context there is a certain set of people even in the workspace. Yeah, I think it becomes important. When I think of that gentleman today, I think he must be in such a happy space as a single parent to pick up his son. Children talk the most when they immediately come from school. That two o'clock moment, if you don't get them, how was a school there in that mood where they want to kind of call it all out, you don't hold it then six o'clock even if you meet them, they're like yeah, it was good. Now they're playing, gaming, zoning out etc., whatever. So I think I just think of that father who wanted to connect with his son from that 2 to 4 pm and he couldn't and now he must be in such a happy space because it's his life and his decisions. He's got that liberty for work-life integration. I think maybe some of the things that shouldn't happen much earlier.
00:48:06
Harish: Yeah. On that note, we've come to the end of this interview but I'm not going to leave you without a couple of questions here. So I'm going to ask you for your hot-take on what you think is the future relevance of head offices? The physical structure?
00:48:27
Smriti: Like from a global context, should I answer or as an individual?
00:48:32
Harish: What do you think is the future relevance of this whole structure, the head offices, is that concept going to be relevant?
00:48:40
Smriti: The last two years have shown us that, but I've also seen things change. I'm really scared once this entire pandemic is over, are we going to go back to where we were two years back? Because that was easier and people were used to what you were used to for the last 20 years. Are you ready to give in? I think that's the question, but from my individual context or let's say forget me. I think the younger generation that's coming in, I don't think it matters.
00:49:14
Harish: Right, okay. And the final one I think, is very relevant to the two of us. So what is the future relevance of B-School campus hiring?
00:49:24
Smriti: I think the war for talent is not over yet. I know that we talk about all types of diversity etc. And in that context, this set of talent provides enough and more diversity, and diversity of thought. I want to talk about, let's say equity, whether you come from a small town in India or you are some high shot from the metros etc., you all come to get the same level of education and then you chart out your own paths. So when I think of having somebody as a regional manager for developing markets or I want somebody from the developed market for developed markets having that exposure at similar exposure. I think it makes a difference to the way I hire. So I think at least as I see it, I'm actually confused to be honest, whether you call it B-Schools or you call it schools. I think education and learning are important to me. Now okay, I'm changing my answer. So to me, education and learning is the key. I know that B-Schools in India's context will always be at least for some future years as I see it will be relevant. But the more I look at it globally, I don't think about which campus, which year is so fashionable there or so much talked about there. I think it is about your learning ability, agility, your ability to learn, the pace at which you learn, where have you reached, what are you delivering? I think those are bigger questions to answer than what education you've got 20 years back. I think some of us are, all of us hold it very close even to date. “Oh, I have gone to so and so school campus and I’m a ‘04 batch.” I think that relevance in India may continue for more time. But as barriers go away and geographical barriers go away, I think it will become more and more irrelevant.
00:51:37
Harish: So the subtext to that is, do you see the process of hiring from these colleges also changing?
00:51:44
Smriti: Yeah, because we ourselves work on such things in terms of how to change the process. By process I mean you're understanding what you are looking for because there are a lot of future skills that we are talking about. Our focus so far as organizations have been primarily on potential, performance and defined little more loosely. I think organizations will try to tighten it because the future technically where we sit today seems different. So what was relevant yesterday as competence or skill may not be relevant tomorrow. So nobody asked me if I am digitally comfortable or not but organizations will design some automation tools or gamification etc. to just see whether your comfort with respect to changing technology, right. And technology, if we see it today, should change every two years. Something new and flashy will come every two years to make our lives more comfortable and this is where we need less technology in many more roles. There is a much greater need for it. So I think it will. The definition of competencies or what you're looking for will change which automatically changes the process because how do you gauge those competencies, that should change along with it.
00:53:09
Harish: With that, thanks a lot for a one-hour long chat on a whole range of topics under culture and future relevance, I think we covered quite a few topics. There are quite a few topics that I want to talk to you about, which we have not covered. We'll probably leave that for part two of this and we will definitely do that sometime in the future. But thanks a lot.
00:53:32
Smriti: Thank you. It's always lovely connecting because it also brings forward your own thoughts, which you don't intentionally think about. But as you talk, I think you're also kind of diving deeper into your own self in terms of what I believe and how it should be etc. So thank you for this. I really enjoyed the conversation.